Sept. 11, 2024

 

Members		Present	Absent			Designee	Present	Absent
Krysti Alexander		x
Lynn Anderson			x
Angela Blanton		x				Olivia Cosper	x
Paula Brown		x				Meshel Richmond		x
Peggy Byerly		x
Susie Cain			x
Gayla Carnagey		x				Angela Whisnant		x
Darla Cheek (Vice-Chairperson)		x				Wendy Swatek		x
Jana Cornelius			x			Sarah Albahadily	x
Terri Davis			x
Rose Jackson		x				Shade Jalo Jared Weigand	x	x
Harold Jergenson		x
Jeannie Jones			x			Misty Warfield		x
Keri Laxton			x			Michelle Glover	x
Amanda Leonhart				x		Jaremy Andrews		x
Sharon Morgan				x		Rori Hodges Yvonne Rossiter	x	x
Terry Owens				x
Shanese Peachlyn	x
Kelly Ramsey (Chairperson)	x
Eric Shachau	x					Cesiley Bouseman		x
Jennifer Sneed	x
Janell Wheat				x		Tammy Maus Christy Kastl	x x
Stephen Weise	x					Teri Blanton		x
Carrie Williams	x					Stephanie Lippert Amber Cuyler	x	x
Shaunda Williams	x					Amie McDaniel Katie Quebedeaux	x	x
						Carole Turner	x
						Angie Avila		x

Others Present:

CCS / DHS	CCS / DHS	VISITORS	VISITORS	VISITORS
Audrey Charlson	Mitzi Lee	Jacquelyn Dunegan	Wynshel Prince-Hopkins	Jackie Evans
Amy Cornelson	Bonnie Clift	Carey Sykes	Tina Feltman	Teresa Widick
Ashley Ousley	Violetta Mumford	Rachel Proper	Tonya Grant	Kaci Waggoner
Mindy Yoder		Jill Goyette	Gabrielle Moon	DeAndre Dochins
Denise Anderson		Larry Wiggins	Katie Shearer	Kristina Allen
Misti Denton		Shane Williams	Danielle Luht	J. Jones
Deanna Nichols		Darci Bolner	Lena Riser	Kolby Terrell
Deborah Smith		Gina McPherson	Lucia Amezquita

Meeting Notices:

·      The Agenda and Meeting Notice was posted on the Secretary of State website on 8/21/24.

Call to Order:           

·      Darla Cheek called the meeting to order at 10:00 am.

Approval of Minutes:

·      Carrie Williams made a motion to approve, Gayla Carnagey seconded the approval.  There were no objections.

Standing Subcommittee Reports:

Membership Subcommittee – Gayla Carnagey

·      Vote for Chairperson In June we proposed Kelly Ramsey to serve as the new Chairperson of the Child Care Advisory Committee. Today we would like to call for a vote from each member in attendance.  It was a unanimous yes and Kelly Ramsey will begin her term immediately, conducting the rest of the meeting.  

·      Members We are pleased to announce that Janell Wheat has received her formal approval from Director Shropshire as the representative for the Licensed Child Care Association of Oklahoma. We recommend Shaunda Williams serve a 2^nd three-year term representing rural child care centers. Her first term expired in June.  We recommend Keri Laxton serve a 2^nd three-year term representing Career Tech Child Care programs. Her first term will expire this month.

·      Term Limits We have set term limits for agencies that are not required to serve (per our discussion before the June meeting):

o   Office of Juvenile Affairs – Expiration September 2025

o   Early Childhood Advisory Council – Expiration September 2026

o   Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation – Expiration September 2027

·      We made the decision to remove the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, as there is currently no representative.

·      Announcement We have created an Oklahoma Child Care Advisory Committee Membership Form that will be sent to you electronically. Please fill it out and submit it as soon as you can. 

·      Carrie Williams requested the membership subcommittee discuss and reconsider having a term limit for the State Early Childhood Advisory Counsil.

Family Child Care Homes Subcommittee – Shanese Peachlyn

·      We discussed at our recent meeting: The Memo sent from OKDHS CCS 6/28/24, Absent days changes, Co-pays -100%, Foster care $5 additional continued

·      CECPD: Wage Supplement, Certificate of Achievement, Trainings

·      Thrive Network: Trainings

QRIS Subcommittee – Shaunda Williams

The QRIS subcommittee met via Zoom on September 11, 2024, at 1:00 pm. The meeting was attended by providers across the state representing both center and home programs. The Zoom attendance maxed out at 100 participants, with many still trying to enter. The meeting was extended to 3:00 pm, allowing an additional hour for participants who were not able to enter during the first hour to attend.  Topics discussed during QRIS subcommittee meeting: A brief overview of the Child Care Advisory Committee and the QRIS Subcommittee was given. Many providers discussed their experiences with the QRIS visit process, these included issues with noncompliance corrections, STARS reductions, issues with coaching assistance, and others. Many providers shared stories of struggles and concern that they may be forced to close their doors if a STARS reduction were to occur due to lack of funds. Providers expressed concern that the 5-STAR system was rolled out to quickly and resulted in confusion for many.

Statements included: Belief that 5-STAR status was handed out to everyone, even when they did not meet the quality, leading to it not meaning anything and to the financial burden that now required reductions.  Belief that licensing workers, coaches, and providers were not given adequate training opportunities. A lack of consistency in expectations across the state. Some providers even shared that their quality coach created plans and paperwork that was then deemed inadequate by licensing workers.  Providers voiced their views about 5-STAR and national accreditation. Many providers expressed their desire to have a specific designation to acknowledge national accredited programs. Providers stated they felt as though nationally accredited programs should not have to do as many steps to reach 5-star, or automatically be moved to the 5-star status if nationally accredited (as was with 3-stars prior to the new system) Some providers discussed that they feel national accreditation is no longer recognized in Oklahoma and that they have not or will not seek reaccreditation. One provider expressed that she was thankful for the system that allowed her to reach the 5-star status without having to go through accreditation. Providers discussed areas that seemed to result in not meeting the expectations and/or different interpretations between licensing/coaches/provider. Some of these areas included: Lesson plans (including individualized needs), Enhancements - some providers stated they had been told by licensing that there will be a STARS representative start doing the QRIS visits instead of licensing.  Some providers discussed issues with working with their coach. A provider stated that she could never get a coach out to help her. One provider stated that in her county they did not have consistent licensing worker for a long time and were unaware of many changes that were taking place due to a lack of communication and consistency from one worker to the next. Some providers stated their coaches, and licensing would quote different pages for requirements and tell conflicting information. Some providers discussed that the coach would read the requirements word for word but could not explain it. Some providers stated that they originally applied for lower STARS but were then told by coaches to apply for a higher level.   

Many comments and questions were made by providers regarding STARS reductions. Some included:  A provider stated they received notification there STARS would be dropped 6-weeks after their visit. Another stated they were told it would take up to 6 months to find out.  Some providers stated they had received a pack of information to fill out while others said they had just received an auto-reduction. One provider said that she had been told you cannot open a new center as a 5-STAR. There was discussion around people calling the office asking about STARS reductions and nobody being able to answer the questions. One even stated, “How are we as provides expected to know the answers when the ones in charge don’t even know them.” Providers discussed the difference between licensing visits and the way STARS visits are conducted. Some stated they were given multiple chances to correct issues, some said they were given 7 days, other were given 10 days, some said they were not even aware of a possible reduction until they received a letter. There was much concern about the lack of consistency across the state about this.  

Discussion was brought up about funding. Comments included: Were so many 5-STAR programs awarded that it has now led to a deficit in funding, which has caused a need for reductions? One provider stated that quality child care is expected, but 5-STAR only pays $2.20/hour. She stated, “Why are they expecting superior child care, but they almost pay nothing.” A provider asked if anything is being done about programs who used the grant money to open a new program and then closed it shortly after. Comments were made about the application period being addressed to legislators as a “self-assessment” however, there was not a self-assessment period for the programs. The application was filled out and DHS determined.

Master Teacher: Providers brought up discussion regarding being wrote up for a Master Teacher noncompliance and facing reductions, even though they had submitted everything and were waiting on CECPD to approve. One provider asked if there is any consideration for master teachers based on enrollment rather than on capacity Alternative paths to master teachers were discussed as ideas to help in this area, such as: accepting all college credits or degrees and considering child care work experience towards master teacher. One provider brought up frustration that as an out-of-school time program she is still expected to meet the requirements of a full-day program, like lesson plans.

There was a lot of discussion and commentary regarding providers feeling as though they spend more time checking boxes than they do caring for children. One stated they feel the quality of care has been lowered because they spend more time worrying about paperwork than taking care of children.  One provider asked when the new rate scale will be made available and if it will show an increase for 5-star programs. Discussion was also had regarding the possible changes to eligibility status from 85% to 70% and the effect this could have on providers and families.  

Specific requests for clarification: How many days are programs given to correct QRIS non-compliance? Will there be a STARS representative conduct QRIS visits or will it continue to be a licensing worker?  

What is the process for determining if a program will have a STARS reduction? How will the provider know if this is happening? How long does it take to determine if STARS will be reduced? Are STARS reductions dropped automatically to a 1-STAR or to the level that requirements are met?  Can a program self-reduce prior receiving a STARS reduction? If STARS are reduced, when can you reapply for STARS? Can a new program open as a 5-STAR program?  When will the new rate scale be made available?  Is there anything in place to gain back money from programs who used grant money to open and then closed shortly after? Would it be possible to create a FAQ sheet giving more detail to providers about the 5-STAR visits and reductions?

 

 

 

Child Care Facilities (centers) Standing Subcommittee – Christy Kastl

Virtual meeting with several providers on 9/3/2024.  Reported that Dr. Shropshire has resigned, and her last day would be Sept 13th.  Brittany Lee also resigned and has already left the department.  It has been requested that any issues that you would normally contact Brittany Lee about, please send it to Deborah Smith, until further notice.  

Discussion about emergency rules that were just issued for public comment, Providers expressed the following: This change will be detrimental to programs in many ways and will have an effect on which programs continue to make room for foster children as they will fill spots with private pay if at all possible. Programs will lose money and there is only so much that can be written off at a loss. Worry that parents not qualifying will send their children at home alone or find unsafe alternatives. Unlicensed care will increase, and more parents will seek that out as an option. Discussion of enrollment freeze in lieu of the eligibility reduction to 70% would be temporary and when this was done before, it lasted about 6 months.  Although providers were advocating for neither option. Suggestion to look at other expenses that could be cut/reduced like R&R, CECPD, etc. Looking at other States to see how they are making it. Blended rate alone is costing programs thousands annually.  Programs reported as much as $60k a year just in this change alone. Discussion about proposed rules increasing Stars level to 3 from level 2 for Centers while Homes and Hope Centers are exempt from this rule.  Providers are not in favor of this exemption or raising minimum to level 3. Providers reported to be made to feel bad for taking subsidy as though it’s a handout from the State.  

The above conversation led to funding conversations: Providers also reported again that there are children listed on their cases that haven’t attended in a long time or maybe have no affiliation with the program.  If we cleaned up these names how much would this save the State if these students are included in the budget needed for subsidy. Desert Grant rollout and how many of those programs haven’t remained open. Requested an investigation and audit of DHS and funding both COVID funds and CCDBG since January 2020.

Stars conversation: Reported by some providers that new programs can’t open as 5 Stars, even if meeting the requirements.  Can this be confirmed or corrected? Recommendations for reductions are rampant and, in many cases, not warranted. Providers said they are being referred for reductions on non-serious non-compliances and that Licensing workers have reported that if programs get any non-compliance they must refer. There are inconsistent interpretations of the Stars program and that some programs that used DHS Coaches are being told by Licensing that they won’t work.  This has led to programs being very frustrated and nowhere to turn. It was suggested to have a counter campaign to the “desert” campaign as providers have reported that parents aren’t even calling for care as they just assume that there aren’t spots due to the desert campaign information. Providers that have been in this industry for decades and have taken advantage of all the programs and training that have been offered by OKDHS are frustrated and wonder how much longer they can survive in this industry. All providers were invited to attend this CCAC meeting, as well as the QRIS Sub-Committee Meeting held on Sept 9^th, and the LCA Gala September 28th at Grand Casino.

 

 

Residential Standing Subcommittee – Terry Owens

·      No meeting this quarter.

Legislative Update: DeAnna Nichols

·      Deanna shared she has no update right now.  Legislation ends in January, so I will have more updates then. 

Licensing Sanctions Report – Carole Turner

·       Carole provided an overview of the report which is included in the handout. This report covers April 1- June 30, 2024. 

Old Business:

·      None. A general discussion regarding lists of programs closed. Carrie Williams provided answers and information. 

New Business:

·      Carrie Williams – Immediately after todays meeting there is a ribbon cutting ceremony at one of the outdoor learning environments that Clearinghouse grant, A Rodriquez family child care home.  Channel 9 will be there.  Happy to see anyone there.

Public Comment: 

·      Tammy Maus – On behalf of LCA and our member’s programs we are deeply concerned about the proposed rules that have an impact on child care small businesses and families.  To exempt Head Start, family child care homes, and hope centers from the stars requirements is unfair and unconstitutional.  The implementation of new stars programs when trying to stabilize the industry from a pandemic was irresponsible on the part of DHS, knowing the covid funds were temporary.   Now that the funding has been depleted, OKDHS and the legislature is attempting to blame providers because of having too many providers at a high star level. Bottom line, Oklahoma has implemented quality standards that are the highest in the nation and we're very proud of that. Yet, the funding is at the lowest in the nation.  Combining that with the amount of families in poverty, Oklahoma has a crisis. Blaming providers for contracting with the state is unacceptable.  It's been reported that OKDHS is in the deficit in the millions and adding millions monthly.  What has an audit of all funding since January 2020 been conducted? The Oklahoma State Department of Ed is under constant scrutiny. We called on Governor Stitt, Attorney General Drummond, and the legislature to immediately order an audit and investigation of OKDHS and any other subordinate agencies that have any funding whatsoever.

·      Sarah Albahadily – I wanted to talk about subsidy for families.  I have multiple staff members who try to call, and it takes several hours in their day.  It's unfair for parents across our state who need the subsidy for their kids to be in child care so they can have jobs, but how can they be one hold for hours on end.  Lighter stuff….I am on the board for OKAEYC and do training every, month.  A friend and I are leading the October 3^rd meeting on personality type and how you work with others. So, if you're interested, I have some flyers for our website.

·      Jacquelyn Dunegan – I'm here on behalf of Kidlinx CCA and I just want to say brace for impact with child care facilities closing like they did in 2020. It will affect the entire economy of Oklahoma if we don't do something now.  We already do not have enough licensed spaces in our state for the children who do need us, so brace for impact.  We must do something to keep child care facilities open.

·      Tina Feltman - I am also from Bryan County, and I am with 3 other providers in our area.  We represent approximately 68 years combined caring for children.  In our area our providers are worried, and they are scared. The roll out of the stars was a huge mistake. How it was done, and it was done improperly. I feel like the new proposed rules where DHS only wants a contract and to subsidize three stars from two stars is a mistake. In our area, we also tend to contract with Chickasaw and Choctaw nation. They generally follow the suit of what OKDHS does.  In my center alone we have around 75% subsidized care.  If I was to be dropped to a two star and lose my subsidy for a year, it would not be worth it for me.  I would close my facility.  Many say they would do the same. Already in Bryan County there are 3 centers who are losing their stars.  I'm not going to say whether that was justified or not, but I am going to say this is that they were 5 stars, when we sent all their information like we were asked to do a star specialist approved it. Now things have changed, and everybody can say what they want. To whether it has to do with funding or not all of a sudden, they're not meeting qualifications. I think the DHS has done a poor job. I think there needs to be a more clear-cut path. It needs to be more regulations and less open to interpretation. I think that by bringing in Star Specialists or whoever to do star reviews, that is a little concerning to me. If my licensing says it is ok throughout the year, but then a stars specialist comes in and says it is not and they find a non-compliance, that is, that's not fair. It ought to be something where everybody's on the same board. If it works for me, it ought to work anywhere. It should not be open for interpretation, that is, setting us up for failure. Many times, we do this with children so we say we don't want to set unattainable goals. I do not see how DHS cannot recognize that that is what they have done. I think it was a poor roll out. I think also they require centers to wait for 12 months so they can reapply. I think it should be sooner.  DHS needs to own their mistake. 

·      Shane Williams – We are a part of LCA and are from Guymon.  We got in the car last night and rolled in at 1:45 this morning.  My first disgusting thought is that with everything that's going on in DHS, we're in this room today and there is not one thing to talk about with new business. We have got to get a grip on this. Our child care system in the state of Oklahoma is going down the tubes.  Our actual numbers are 30% higher than the neighbor less than two years ago to operate our facilities, that's real.   The idea of going back to pre-COVID type of funding is not going to work currently.  We've got to keep funding in place, everyone needs to get on the same page for rules and regulations.  The idea of interpreting these rules is crazy. Everybody should be trained off the same book, the same set of rules. There should be no room for any individual interpretation of those rules. How can we as providers go about the rules when we don't know what they are? That's all I've got to say right now. I'm glad we came and we will be here next time. 

·      Darci Bolner - I am from Luther, OK and I it just me, I don't have any backing from corporate. The thought of taking away private pay? Because I'm going to simply not be able to take subsidy isn’t going to be an option for me.  I am in a low socioeconomic area and those parents need me. They need me to be there. My family has seen great financial loss, as I'm sure most of you guys who are in child care centers have. We do it because we love it. We've never charged our teachers because it felt wrong to us. And so that was a gift directly to our business from the state. When the teachers got that for free, that was for me, you know, that was awesome.  Nobody can get a hold of DHS. I had a parent approved for, March 1, but the back swiped. And then they told me to do a paper claim. It took me 8 months. Nobody has a phone anymore. There is not a phone number to call, so I e-mail, and I e-mail, and I e-mail, and then finally someone says, oh, I'm sorry that wasn't. There wasn’t a reason and so the same thing happened this month. She was back, you know, back day to April, one August 1, because that's when they finally got to her. But they're not going to pay us for that. And so it is very frustrating. We were also licensed at 5 star and it was quickly taken away because I didn't have enough master teachers and in a rural area it's hard to get when I have teachers who have been with me for 20 years. They're master teachers, so they have a piece of paper or not their master teachers. If we could have some kind of other certification process for these full-time moms who can't go to class, they can't make it. And it was either me reduce my capacity or reduce my stars and from a financial standpoint, it had to be the stars. Even though my teachers worked their tails off. 

·      Rachel Proper – I acknowledge all the things that have been said here today.  The stars, the subsidy reduction and the COVID support going away and I acknowledge it is going to be a challenge for our industry. I would like to request a caveat to all of this, that we have not been discussing.  Two years from this November, our state is going to have to go to an enrollment-based system.  We have two years to get that right. And I would encourage DHS and the providers who are willing and able to give time, maybe through this group, to figure out how we can manage what that system is going to look like and make sure that we'll manage the rollouts.  This is a formal request.  Also, there are only two interim studies, one next Tuesday at the Capital and then another one October 1st.  Lastly, Oklahoma’s population is in the top 10.  There are so many more children that are using the system than there have been in the last 5 years.  There are proposals on a federal level to increase the federal grants but that is not enough.  Oklahoma needs to provide more state dollars. We've got to establish some of the state, some investing in this. 

·      Katie Quebedeaux – I am with LCA. Something that I always think that we forget about when we're here, we talk about all the paperwork, policy, procedures.  But every one of us in this room, you are here because of the kids.  And what stops me is not one time today have we really focused on the children. I think it's important to remember that when we're talking quality, Oklahoma is set up to be the number one state in child care. We can provide high quality care for Oklahoma's children. We can teach them the foundation that they need. Moving on to school, but we must do it the right way. And so, number one, we need to focus on our families and our children. How are we going to get them into licensed childcare programs, whether it be a center or a home. My concern is right now we went to 50%, OK. And I think that most families or most child care in here now, the families struggle, We talked about inflation earlier. We talked about costs are rising, but yet income is not rising across the state. And so families have had to make tough decisions about sending children home since they were by themselves sending children to unlicensed facilities. And now we're talking about parents making this decision. We're coming up on October 1, 100% co-pay. And I know I talked to families across the state who are already saying they can't afford to put their children there. So they're sending 8 year old children to stay at home after school by themselves. They're sending them to family members. They're sending unlicensed home programs and my concern is now we are talking about crossing the eligibility rate to 70%. So, across the state of Oklahoma, what are we going to do with children that are not getting the resources that they need? When families can't afford to send them to quality programs and are we prepared to see this deficit and kind of the reason that we're in the Chapel block grant as it is, what's going to happen when things are happening to these children? So, I just think that we all need to take a second and acknowledge how we can help the families, because at the end of the day, if we don't have families in our programs, then how are we going to survive as childcare operators?  And so, our first look should be families. Every week I am fielding calls. Providers are scared. They don't know how they're going to stay open.

Next Meetings:

·      Wednesday, December 11, 2024, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation

·      Wednesday, March 12, 2025, TBD

·      Wednesday, June 11, 2025, TBD

Meeting adjourned at 10:52 am

 made a motion to adjourn, seconded the motion.  There were no objections.